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			<span class="index">#21</span> <span id="issue-title" class="has-emoji">[RFC] Expansion of XMPP plugin&#39;s functionality</span>
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				opened <span class="time-since" title="Wed, 19 Jun 2019 15:45:14 UTC">1 year ago</span> by <a href="/diogo">diogo</a>
			
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						<span class="text grey"><a href="/diogo">Diogo Cordeiro</a> commented <a href="#issue-63448"><span class="time-since" title="Wed, 19 Jun 2019 15:45:14 UTC">1 year ago</span></a></span>
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								<pre><code>&lt;rozzin&gt;    I have been thinking on the possibility of making some sort of actual XMPP *transport* that could do
            JID-mapping..., but so far it seems like the conceptual models of XMPP vs. GNU social are probably just too
            different.
&lt;lnxw37&gt;    Probably less than it appears. In past times, I did have someone who misconfigured their XMPP
            bridge whose posts came directly to my IM account. IMO, such a system is going to be the only way we get
            true federated DMs. The current scope-limited posts that other fediverse software calls DMs fail in that
            regard.
&lt;rozzin&gt;    lnxw37: I&#39;m failing to follow...
&lt;rozzin&gt;    lnxw37: I&#39;m afraid I don&#39;t understand any of the things that you just said :(
&lt;lnxw37&gt;    rozzin: (1) I had an XMPP enabled instance and someone else had an XMPP enabled instance.
            Whenever a user of that instance mentioned a user of my instance, if my user had connected an XMPP account,
            the mention went straight there without appearing on the timeline.
&lt;lnxw37&gt;    (2) Direct messages / private messages are something different than just limiting the scope
            (recipients list) of a regular post, as most AP implementations do. Attaching an XMPP server is a way to
            have real DMs.
            And with OTR or OMEMO, they can become actual _private_ messages.
&lt;lnxw37&gt;    The dentmaster (admin) of the other instance said he had misconfigured something. Once he fixed
            it, the occurence at (1) went away.
&lt;rozzin&gt;    lnxw37: OK, I&#39;m mostly struggling to understand how (1) could have happened.
&lt;rozzin&gt;    lnxw37: also, when you say &#34;the mention went straight there without appearing on the
            timeline&#34;, you mean that it went straight through from
            his social server &gt; OStatus -&gt; your social server -&gt; out thru the XMPP bot?
&lt;rozzin&gt;    lnxw37: ... without appearing in which timeline(s)?
&lt;lnxw37&gt;    rozzin: I believe it went:
            Their user —&gt; their server —&gt; their instance&#39;s XMPP server —&gt; our instance&#39;s XMPP server —&gt; our user&#39;s XMPP
            account.
&lt;rozzin&gt;    lnxw37: meaning that you got XMPP messages from *his bot* instead of your own?
&lt;rozzin&gt;    lnxw37: I should clarify that I haven&#39;t _used_ the GNU social XMPP plugin; IIRC I saw some
            screenshots from other people using it ages ago, and I&#39;ve (somewhat) more recently skimmed the code...; from
            what I&#39;ve seen of how the plugin works, that &#34;their instance&#39;s XMPP server —&gt; our instance&#39;s XMPP server&#34;
            leg doesn&#39;t seem possible.
&lt;lnxw37&gt;    No, I think it went from their bot to my bot to me, without OStatus or my instance being
            involved. It was years ago, so I cannot recall the details, but I always remembered that posts could travel
            through the XMPP network as well as the OStatus network.
&lt;rozzin&gt;    I guess we could try to reproduce the misconfiguration :)
&lt;rozzin&gt;    Hmm....
&lt;rozzin&gt;    There is &#34;public feed&#34; option to &#34;You can send *all* messages from your social networking site to a
            third-party service using XMPP&#34; that I see;
&lt;rozzin&gt;    and if the receiving bot is parsing the @-references out of the messages that it receives (and IIRC
            there were a bunch of places where the GNU social code did that even though it sometimes didn&#39;t necessarily
            make sense for it to do so...), then maybe that would do it?
&lt;diogo&gt;     lnxw37: that&#39;s really interesting...
&lt;diogo&gt;     rozzin: The OStatus plugin has large chunks of code for parsing @-mentions and there are
            ActivityStreams classes that allow you to instantiate AS objects from AS messages
&lt;rozzin&gt;    Yes, that&#39;s what I said :)
&lt;diogo&gt;     so, yeah, that is probably doable :)
&lt;diogo&gt;     It was already in the plans to work on that, like you said there seems to be some redundancy
            (but that has to be carefully analysed), and it&#39;s important to add core support for AS2
&lt;rozzin&gt;    Anyway, what I was originally talking about as &#34;the models being too different&#34; was XMPP clients as a
            UI, not XMPP S2S as a distribution mechanism.
&lt;rozzin&gt;    There is actually a XEP that was written specifically targetted at enabling XMPP to be a back-end
            distribution mechanism for this sort of content (I don&#39;t remember much of the specifics);
&lt;rozzin&gt;    but when I said &#34;the XMPP bot doesn&#39;t cut it&#34;, I meant as a front-end, i.e. &#34;telling iPhone users to
            just use ChatSecure or Tigase or whatever XMPP client as a way of listening for new notices from GNU social&#34;
            doesn&#39;t seem realistic.
&lt;lnxw37&gt;    You&#39;re very likely correct.
            As a Windows / Linux / WebOS / Android user, I found the XMPP bot to be an easy way to cut through all the
            things that come with using the WebUI. But I haven&#39;t had a working XMPP bot in years, so I cannot even say
            for sure that I&#39;d get a lot of utility from it.
&lt;rozzin&gt;    Hmm. Did Finnie ever release source for x11r5?
&lt;rozzin&gt;    Any recommendations for social chatterbot codebases?
&lt;lnxw37&gt;    I think he said that having multiple X11R5 bots would make the original non-unique. Though we&#39;d already
            heard about offspring “TinCanJr” by then.
&lt;rozzin&gt;    phbbt.
</code></pre>

							
						</div>
						<div class="raw-content hide">    &lt;rozzin&gt;    I have been thinking on the possibility of making some sort of actual XMPP *transport* that could do
                JID-mapping..., but so far it seems like the conceptual models of XMPP vs. GNU social are probably just too
                different.
    &lt;lnxw37&gt;    Probably less than it appears. In past times, I did have someone who misconfigured their XMPP
                bridge whose posts came directly to my IM account. IMO, such a system is going to be the only way we get
                true federated DMs. The current scope-limited posts that other fediverse software calls DMs fail in that
                regard.
    &lt;rozzin&gt;    lnxw37: I&#39;m failing to follow...
    &lt;rozzin&gt;    lnxw37: I&#39;m afraid I don&#39;t understand any of the things that you just said :(
    &lt;lnxw37&gt;    rozzin: (1) I had an XMPP enabled instance and someone else had an XMPP enabled instance.
                Whenever a user of that instance mentioned a user of my instance, if my user had connected an XMPP account,
                the mention went straight there without appearing on the timeline.
    &lt;lnxw37&gt;    (2) Direct messages / private messages are something different than just limiting the scope
                (recipients list) of a regular post, as most AP implementations do. Attaching an XMPP server is a way to
                have real DMs.
                And with OTR or OMEMO, they can become actual _private_ messages.
    &lt;lnxw37&gt;    The dentmaster (admin) of the other instance said he had misconfigured something. Once he fixed
                it, the occurence at (1) went away.
    &lt;rozzin&gt;    lnxw37: OK, I&#39;m mostly struggling to understand how (1) could have happened.
    &lt;rozzin&gt;    lnxw37: also, when you say &#34;the mention went straight there without appearing on the
                timeline&#34;, you mean that it went straight through from
                his social server &gt; OStatus -&gt; your social server -&gt; out thru the XMPP bot?
    &lt;rozzin&gt;    lnxw37: ... without appearing in which timeline(s)?
    &lt;lnxw37&gt;    rozzin: I believe it went:
                Their user —&gt; their server —&gt; their instance&#39;s XMPP server —&gt; our instance&#39;s XMPP server —&gt; our user&#39;s XMPP
                account.
    &lt;rozzin&gt;    lnxw37: meaning that you got XMPP messages from *his bot* instead of your own?
    &lt;rozzin&gt;    lnxw37: I should clarify that I haven&#39;t _used_ the GNU social XMPP plugin; IIRC I saw some
                screenshots from other people using it ages ago, and I&#39;ve (somewhat) more recently skimmed the code...; from
                what I&#39;ve seen of how the plugin works, that &#34;their instance&#39;s XMPP server —&gt; our instance&#39;s XMPP server&#34;
                leg doesn&#39;t seem possible.
    &lt;lnxw37&gt;    No, I think it went from their bot to my bot to me, without OStatus or my instance being
                involved. It was years ago, so I cannot recall the details, but I always remembered that posts could travel
                through the XMPP network as well as the OStatus network.
    &lt;rozzin&gt;    I guess we could try to reproduce the misconfiguration :)
    &lt;rozzin&gt;    Hmm....
    &lt;rozzin&gt;    There is &#34;public feed&#34; option to &#34;You can send *all* messages from your social networking site to a
                third-party service using XMPP&#34; that I see;
    &lt;rozzin&gt;    and if the receiving bot is parsing the @-references out of the messages that it receives (and IIRC
                there were a bunch of places where the GNU social code did that even though it sometimes didn&#39;t necessarily
                make sense for it to do so...), then maybe that would do it?
    &lt;diogo&gt;     lnxw37: that&#39;s really interesting...
    &lt;diogo&gt;     rozzin: The OStatus plugin has large chunks of code for parsing @-mentions and there are
                ActivityStreams classes that allow you to instantiate AS objects from AS messages
    &lt;rozzin&gt;    Yes, that&#39;s what I said :)
    &lt;diogo&gt;     so, yeah, that is probably doable :)
    &lt;diogo&gt;     It was already in the plans to work on that, like you said there seems to be some redundancy
                (but that has to be carefully analysed), and it&#39;s important to add core support for AS2
    &lt;rozzin&gt;    Anyway, what I was originally talking about as &#34;the models being too different&#34; was XMPP clients as a
                UI, not XMPP S2S as a distribution mechanism.
    &lt;rozzin&gt;    There is actually a XEP that was written specifically targetted at enabling XMPP to be a back-end
                distribution mechanism for this sort of content (I don&#39;t remember much of the specifics);
    &lt;rozzin&gt;    but when I said &#34;the XMPP bot doesn&#39;t cut it&#34;, I meant as a front-end, i.e. &#34;telling iPhone users to
                just use ChatSecure or Tigase or whatever XMPP client as a way of listening for new notices from GNU social&#34;
                doesn&#39;t seem realistic.
    &lt;lnxw37&gt;    You&#39;re very likely correct.
                As a Windows / Linux / WebOS / Android user, I found the XMPP bot to be an easy way to cut through all the
                things that come with using the WebUI. But I haven&#39;t had a working XMPP bot in years, so I cannot even say
                for sure that I&#39;d get a lot of utility from it.
    &lt;rozzin&gt;    Hmm. Did Finnie ever release source for x11r5?
    &lt;rozzin&gt;    Any recommendations for social chatterbot codebases?
    &lt;lnxw37&gt;    I think he said that having multiple X11R5 bots would make the original non-unique. Though we&#39;d already
                heard about offspring “TinCanJr” by then.
    &lt;rozzin&gt;    phbbt.</div>
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								<span class="text grey"><a href="/diogo">Diogo Cordeiro</a> commented <a href="#issuecomment-20039"><span class="time-since" title="Fri, 17 Jul 2020 00:18:24 UTC">3 months ago</span></a></span>
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										<p>From thundrbvr at <a href="/diogo/gnu-social/issues/158" rel="nofollow">#158</a>:</p>

<p>rozzin &amp; I were discussing what can be done with XMPP.</p>

<p><a href="https://www.jsxc.org/" rel="nofollow">https://www.jsxc.org/</a> <br/>
<a href="https://jsxc.readthedocs.io/en/latest/getting-started/installation.html" rel="nofollow">https://jsxc.readthedocs.io/en/latest/getting-started/installation.html</a></p>

<ul>
<li>IM button on Groups to integrate seemlessly for IMing on the GS instance.</li>
<li>Auto generate a MUC for every Group and</li>
<li>Add users to the MUC who join the Group.</li>
</ul>

									
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								<div class="raw-content hide">From thundrbvr at #158:

rozzin &amp; I were discussing what can be done with XMPP. 

https://www.jsxc.org/ &lt;br /&gt;
https://jsxc.readthedocs.io/en/latest/getting-started/installation.html

* IM button on Groups to integrate seemlessly for IMing on the GS instance.
* Auto generate a MUC for every Group and 
* Add users to the MUC who join the Group.</div>
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